Game rules have changed

I agree that leading should be allowed. Would be nice to double log with my chars, since I spent the time making the first. This might cause a problem with pvp though..

The base exp from an exp pole is capped by a % of the players exp.
For example a player with 100,000 exp will have their exp capped at 10.000 for the pole, assuming the capping is 10%.
This is before the randomisation.
So a player with 10,000 exp will only be able to get up to 1,000 from a 10,000 pole.

Removing social interaction because someone can potentially get 1mil exp from being lead in U3 is not worth it. What is 1 mill exp in the grand scale of total exp gained over a players characters life time. The leading rule simply is not worth the cost of social interaction.

Leading/ playing with higher ranks forms bonds and friends, gives lower ranks the appreciation of helping others. And it feels good at a low rank to get all this exp from a underground run. It even forms memories and nostalgia.

I repeat, having non leading zones is not worth the cost of all the positives that comes with social interactions.

for Aranock and Sir Tank.

Oldhaus wrote:

Removing social interaction because someone can potentially get 1mil exp from being lead in U3 is not worth it. What is 1 mill exp in the grand scale of total exp gained over a players characters life time. The leading rule simply is not worth the cost of social interaction.

Leading/ playing with higher ranks forms bonds and friends, gives lower ranks the appreciation of helping others. And it feels good at a low rank to get all this exp from a underground run. It even forms memories and nostalgia.

I repeat, having non leading zones is not worth the cost of all the positives that comes with social interactions.

for Aranock and Sir Tank.

Well its an easy way to cheese difficulty of the game and champion quests.

/endsarcasm

This topic has been brought up ad nauseum for the past few years. No admin has ever given any valid reason for the existance of this rule. It has been contested multiple times over the years and despite the general concensus, no action has ever been taken to remove it or reduce it. Actually it has been made harsher and more restrictive over time.

There has been NO valid point made to the perpetuation or increased gameplay resulting from this rule. It has however been shown that players have indeed refrained from playing due to the severity of the rule and this one in particular. How dumb does one have to be not to see the point and impact of this rule. Do I want to play on my character when no one can help me get my arch skills? No I do not. Do I feel like helping other players when they need assistance or when im bored? Yes... Can I? No... What is the point of playing online?

While I respect LL and his unwavering dedication to this game, the decision not to remove this rule really worries me. Leading has no negative impact on the community as anyone can be led or lead. Unless you are a total PoS, you will find someone to help you. People who get poles early will get lower exp.

In truth quests are already made to be anti leading in some fashion. You can't turn in certain quest items before certain ranks. So no 30k swimming at private. Quest items are soul bound. Limiting the impact of leading on "cheesing". And similar restrictions can be added to the champion quests to limit impact. Add a pole restriction. Whatever you want to do but don't keep screwing the online aspect of a game for this stupid reason. It is not a disadvantage if everyone can do it. If everyone has access to something, it is fair.

/endrant

The game was designed around having quests and areas that are a challenge for the rank of player that you are.
It was not designed to have a warlord walk you through everything and make you a brig in 8 hours or less. I have seen high ranks take privates or very low ranks into the high pents and power rank them.

I can retrofit restrictions onto appropriate areas with group portals and then remove all leading rules. Note that this would automatically stop Grave Retrievals by high ranks.

I can also give instant brig or noble scrolls to save you the trouble of having to earn points and facing the stress of challenges.

I already have a command that automatically gives you all of the town quests (/townq).

It all depends on whether you think the game should retain a rank based challenge or not.

My personal view is that players should work for their rewards and then reap the benefits.
If you want to help someone then use an appropriately ranked alt to do so and everyone is happy.
I have about 20 alts for such purposes (as well as me getting bored with only having a few).

Lordlava wrote:

The game was designed around having quests and areas that are a challenge for the rank of player that you are.
It was not designed to have a warlord walk you through everything and make you a brig in 8 hours or less. I have seen high ranks take privates or very low ranks into the high pents and power rank them.

Yeah, good point

I definitely agree that there are Warlords out there who don't really play the game but would play if they were allowed to help lowbies more.

I agree that penting should be a "no-helping" zone, meaning that someone can lead you to poles, but can't help you pent (lowbie touches pents while noble kills gargs)

People who decide to fast track early ranks are only punished later on when all they can do is AT or pent for experience.

Lordlava wrote:

The game was designed around having quests and areas that are a challenge for the rank of player that you are.
It was not designed to have a warlord walk you through everything and make you a brig in 8 hours or less.  I have seen high ranks take privates or very low ranks into the high pents and power rank them.

I can retrofit restrictions onto appropriate areas with group portals and then remove all leading rules.  Note that this would automatically stop Grave Retrievals by high ranks.

I can also give instant brig or noble scrolls to save you the trouble of having to earn points and facing the stress of challenges.

I already have a command that automatically gives you all of the town quests (/townq).

It all depends on whether you think the game should retain a rank based challenge or not.

My personal view is that players should work for their rewards and then reap the benefits.
If you want to help someone then use an appropriately ranked alt to do so and everyone is happy.
I have about 20 alts for such purposes (as well as me getting bored with only having a few).

The problem with this thought process is that you are given two choices. Either play how you indicate or do not play at all. Online games involve the possibility of RP and varied gameplay styles not just one. I have a few alts right now and if the previous admin werent such tools I might have even more but that does not change the fact that sometimes this game is unfair. Sometimes, you cannot solo certain content without help. Sometimes no one is online with an alt in your group range, so you do not do that content. The issue with that is that you will get discouraged and probably recall or log off.

Look no one is saying that you should bring privates in Icie pents. No one is saying that you should forgo the entire game experience. But here is the thing. People should have some inkling of choice in how they play. You force players to play solo and then punish them if they want to group and bond. Not very fun. So amend the rules. Say you cant power level your character in ice pents. Put loose but realistic rank restriction on pents? Problem solved.

This server wiped 3 warlord characters of mine not to mention the plethora of nobles I had over the multiple versions of this server. I do not necessarily wish to repeat this experience every single time. Most players here are not new to the game. There is no more challenge from doing the same quest youve done 50 times prior but given the right settings challenge can be preserved (think champion quests).

Anyway, no point in arguing with a wall. The facts are clear. People hate this rule, people generally dislike the severity of rules in this server, some people do not play because of these rules. In general that wouldn't make anyone flinch but when you average 4.90 players online (with ayumi and Nyan perma logged might I had) you should consider the damage to the player base.

I am done with the topic. Not because I don't care but because I am not dumb enough to waste more time writing about how others and I do not enjoy this rule. You are a capable person, you understand the underlying aspects of this and have apparantly made your decision already. So I will continue playing and will try to help new players in legal ways. Cheers

Asmo needs to drink his coffee this morning... lol

I agree though, people are discouraged to play together which in end makes them log out. People who are nobles and bored of the game aren't even allowed to help others to keep them interested.

If leading does end up allowed I think pents and Abandoned town should remain unleadable at least.

amanar wrote:

Asmo needs to drink his coffee this morning... lol

I agree though, people are discouraged to play together which in end makes them log out. People who are nobles and bored of the game aren't even allowed to help others to keep them interested.

Tea actually but yes...

Even though I see where you are coming from LL, the problem with the leading rule is that there just aren't enough new players or players with alts to help you through the game, especially from the perspective of a new player.

There's no way I'm going to invite one of my friends to play this game, give him a run through and expect him to solo not only all the quests, but more specifically labs and all other areas of the game. I mean, I've played V2 on and off for years and I've enjoyed a few struggles with the new areas on this server (and at other times would have been completely lost if I didn't physically have someone who knew what to do in the room with me) but imagine a new player trying to do prospect peak or wand/staff/shield quests with nooooo clue where to even start. If I was out of group range I would have to tell them to suck eggs if they needed help.

Does this mean we should remove the leading rule altogether and let people go nuts? Probably not, but due to the lack of new players and lower ranked characters, I think we should loosen restrictions a bit. Why not change the grouping range to 5 or 6? Make it so certain areas are off limits like power penting or other dodgey ways to get exp and let people show new players how to do quests, especially if they are stuck. Who honestly played V2 and figured out every quest and lab without the help from an ungroupable player? We even had lab helpers who were like Brig in lab 7 and 8 to help us, now it's so much more difficult.

Honestly though, eg, if I want to get some garg nest poles, and my friend is an Earl seyan, and we head to garg nest and get in trouble for it, it's a little ridiculous. I am risking my neck in gargs nest! Just because a warlord seyan is there doesn't make it a safe area for me! It makes it easier sure but who cares? We're having fun!

Whereas if someone has taken a private to icies and is exploiting the game to power level someone that's obviously a bit much.

I can see where it's difficult though, just where and how do you draw the line?

It has long been on my list to make areas that should be groupable into genuine group only areas and save the hassle of having to enforce it.
The technology is now there.
However this is not an insignificant task and it has not reached to top of my priority list.

Until it does, I do not have any intention of relaxing the grouping rules significantly.

How bout this for an Idea, you can group anybody you like, but if your grouped up with someone outside the 3 or 4 group range you loose all exp from monsters/pents and don't get Loot maybe as well??? this way u can still take people to get quests from chests/ exp from poles and all the fun stuff but people cant abuse it for exp.
just a thought